Hello Menopause Episode 14: Ruthie Ackerman – Transcript

‍

Stacy London She/her (00:07.982)

Isn't this so great that this worked out?

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (00:13.261)

I cannot be more excited.

‍

Stacy London She/her (00:13.678)

One thing you need to know about Ruthie before we really get into it and her forthcoming memoir Is that when Ruthie and I saw each other upstate we already were friends We knew each other from women's groups and all sorts of things She was wearing the dopest Dries van Noten sandals that you got at what a scene ends like thrift thing or something for like $45. I almost sell them off your feet. Remember?

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (00:46.375)

I remember, yes, cause I was like, Stacy London likes my sandals. my God, this is the best day ever.

‍

Stacy London She/her (00:53.678)

Those were the best sandals. Okay. Anyway, so she's got great taste and she's a mom. And I want to talk about something interesting, especially for our podcast, right? When, you know, we have been concentrating so much on menopause, but you became a mom at 43 and that's really at a moment right now that, you know, we've been talking about women starting to think about perimenopause if they're not already in it. So did that timing shape your experience at all?

of both motherhood and perimenopause? And what surprised you most about navigating those two? That's a lot of questions I can ask again.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (01:32.769)

No, I think these are great questions and it's really something that I hadn't thought about until now looking back because in the moment when I was 41, 42, doing all the things that a woman in her early 40s does to try to get pregnant, which is IVF, I had frozen eggs that I was trying to use, I was like in it.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (01:54.859)

I was doing everything I could to sort of like stave off all the menopause things that were happening and trying to just like get to baby and only now, yeah.

‍

Stacy London She/her (02:06.902)

Right. Can you, can I interrupt you just for one thing when you say you were trying to stave off all the menopause things and get to baby, right? I understand that being the priority, but did you recognize that's what you were trying to do was stave off menopause things or were you just not even recognizing that's what you were doing? Like was it a conscious choice?

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (02:28.109)

Well, I mean, I had to recognize it to some extent, right? Because suddenly I was being told by my doctors that they needed to test my hormones and they were telling me about my FSH and my LH and all of these hormones that I had spent my entire life ignoring up until then. I had no idea what those things were.

‍

Stacy London She/her (02:54.69)

Me too!

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (02:58.027)

And then suddenly the doctors like, well, your numbers aren't looking very good. Your hormone levels aren't looking very good. These are the numbers of someone who's, you know, heading towards menopause, which in my early 40s, I should have been, but I was like, but I look good and I feel good. I'm sure I have the body of a 20 year old, right? Like I look exactly the same.

‍

Stacy London She/her (03:22.958)

I mean, listen, right, you feel and look exactly the same. to be fair, right, women are having children later in life. I mean, I think, you know, the culture will, the biology will follow the culture, but you're still in the midst of that happening. So I remember my sister telling me that at 34, her doctor said, you've got plenty of time. And then she turned 35 and he was like, you better have a baby right away.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (03:50.222)

Yes. Yeah, well, I was 41 and 42 and the doctors like, well, you can take DHEA and CoQ10 and some of these supplements to try to like improve your hormone levels in order to try to like get better quality eggs. But to answer your question, I had no, I had not been thinking about menopause. I had not been thinking, I mean, foolishly in retrospect.

‍

Stacy London She/her (03:52.647)

TikTok, TikTok. So here you are, 43.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (04:20.013)

I had not been thinking about hormone levels, because I never knew to think about them. I didn't know about FSH and LH until the doctor mentioned it. And now looking back on that time, I can't believe it, because by the time I had my child at 43 and kind of came out of the fourth trimester with this infant, I feel like very soon after that, like, all the hormones returned to my pre-pregnancy levels, which were perimenopause levels. And now I was in this moment of like postpartum with an infant, but also in the midst of being perimenopausal heading towards menopause. Yikes!

‍

Stacy London She/her (05:03.038)

Yikes! Now, I wonder how that affected your parenting style with the newborn.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (05:09.965)

Well, I mean, I think one of the funny things is that I went at some point very soon after that to my therapist to be like, I'm filled with rage. I'm having all these mood swings. I can't sleep. Is it because I have a new baby? Is it because I'm perimenopausal and these are the symptoms? or is it? I mean, what's going on? I had no idea what was what. And the doctor has no idea.

‍

like how to tell me what's what, but I really wish the doctor would have said, you know what, these are all symptoms of perimenopause. They're very appropriate. You should be feeling all these things. And yes, when you have a new baby, you're also gonna be feeling, you know, irritable and you're not sleeping a lot and all these things as well. So then I had a sense that like all of this was very normal, but I didn't. I thought there's something wrong with me on every level.

‍

Stacy London She/her (06:01.635)

normal

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (06:06.955)

I'm like doing motherhood wrong and I'm doing perimenopause wrong.

‍

Stacy London She/her (06:10.638)

I mean, that's the thing. That's one of the things that drives me crazy is that, especially having children later, if you are experiencing what would be considered postpartum, there are some doctors that even say postpartum is the start of perimenopause. So I can imagine, like what we really need to do is open like an axe throwing facility or like a shooting range, something where women can be like, I don't care what's wrong with me. I'm just going to get rid of my rage.

‍

Right? I mean, I think that that would be the most helpful. I so I'm guessing you did not feel prepared for that overlap or even understood that that overlap was happening.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (06:41.483)

Yes!

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (06:52.213)

No, I did not feel prepared for the overlap, did not understand it was happening. No, at all.

‍

Stacy London She/her (06:59.168)

And did you, what about your support system? I mean, your husband, your friends and family, I mean, how did that work for you? Did they help you? Did anybody have any information or like any words of wisdom?

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (07:14.033)

No, I think part of it is one, I mean, my husband Rob was in it with me. So he's like, you know, he's having his own stuff going on because he's trying to figure out this whole new parenthood thing. think, yeah, it's a big thing. I think also I felt a lot of shame because I think part of it was I wanted so bad, by the time I had a child, I wanted to have a child so badly.

‍

Stacy London She/her (07:19.778)

Mm-hmm.

‍

Stacy London She/her (07:27.948)

Yes, he's a new dress!

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (07:41.42)

I felt like I should have been so thrilled that I have this healthy baby. I'm healthy. I didn't die in childbirth like so many women do in this country. didn't, you my baby didn't have anything wrong with her, thank goodness. And so I should have been thrilled, but instead I feel rage, I feel irritable, I feel sad, I feel all these things. Turns out I also had postpartum depression and anxiety, which a lot of women also have. But...

‍

Stacy London She/her (07:48.877)

Yes.

‍

Stacy London She/her (08:08.115)

perimenopause as well.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (08:09.235)

in perimenopause as well. And so, but I felt ashamed that I shouldn't be feeling these things. So I didn't ask too many questions because I was already just like, let me not tell anybody because my friends weren't talking about having postpartum depression. And so I felt alone.

‍

Stacy London She/her (08:28.084)

my God, breaks my Yeah, that breaks my heart. think one, not, you the shame is something that, you know, unfortunately we put on ourselves because there are all these kind of unspoken societal cultural messages about you had a baby, you're so lucky, everything went right. How can you complain about anything instead of, you know, actually being informed? And then, you know,

‍

On top of that, then you're not getting any support because you're afraid that if you say something, people are going to look at you sideways and be like, what? You know, what's wrong? How did you advocate for yourself? I mean, did you learn to advocate for yourself or did you just like white knuckle through it?

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (09:08.907)

knuckle through it. And the truth is that I don't think I would have actually gotten help or even known I had postpartum anxiety, if not for my kid's pediatrician, actually, who I had gone to like her three month checkup. And I was, I was in tears. And she handed me I was in tears because of all the normal things that you'd be in tears about when you have a little

‍

Stacy London She/her (09:26.827)

Yeah.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (09:33.538)

baby, like, is she pooping the right amount? Is she crying too much? Whatever, am I doing the right things? And this word like right, like we always think we're doing things wrong. And I was in this like, I have to do everything perfectly. And the pediatrician handed me a postpartum depression questionnaire that was like,

‍

Stacy London She/her (09:34.187)

me here.

‍

Stacy London She/her (09:39.841)

Yes.

‍

Stacy London She/her (09:43.798)

Wrong. Yeah.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (09:54.222)

Have you have, are you feeling, you know, as happy as you always did? And are you feeling, you know, are you feeling more anxiety than usual? Whatever the questions were. And basically like every question, I basically failed. I was like off the charts, like, you know, postpartum anxiety. And she's like, you know what? You gotta go to a psychiatrist and get some Zoloft. She's like, it's simple. And I went on Zoloft and it definitely helped. Yeah.

‍

Stacy London She/her (10:08.319)

Right.

‍

Stacy London She/her (10:21.496)

Well, you know, what's so interesting to me is that you say you failed, right? I'm like, no, you got 100 % on the test. You got it right. You didn't fail. And also I think that it's important that, you know, your doctor at least gave you one solution, right? Which would be to go on antidepressants and say, take Zoloftin and that's all you need to do. A, make it that simple, make it, you know, give that recommendation without shame. All of the things that

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (10:25.365)

You

‍

Stacy London She/her (10:51.34)

you know, women need to hear when pregnancy and perimenopause are such hormonal like hurricanes to begin with. Like this should be par for the course. You have mentioned in the memoir that you, and in essays that you've opened up quite a bit about the fact that you were using donor eggs, which is also something that I think a lot of people have shame around. How did you find your voice in telling that part of the story?

‍

And what has been the response from other women?

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (11:27.117)

I'm so glad that we're talking about this, Stacey, because to be honest, I don't know that I was going to tell that part of the story. For a long time, I wondered, like, could I write the book, say I had the baby, but maybe not mention the donor eggs, you know? Like, let's, like, not talk about that part of it. Not because I felt shame, but because to me, it feels like to me, and this is still the case, that...

‍

society feels so much shame about it that it's almost like I am picking up on the shame that's being given to me from the outside, if that makes sense. I'm affected by it. have, if there's like a hierarchy of ways to be a mother, it's like donor eggs is at the very bottom. And I feel like eventually I got to the place where I was like,

‍

Stacy London She/her (12:05.656)

Right, you're re-infected by it.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (12:25.645)

So many young women were reaching out to me on social media, people I knew sometimes, but oftentimes did not know and say, how did you have a baby at 43? I'm doing this process and this fertility treatment, and I'm not getting the golden egg. How were you able to do it? And I felt like I couldn't lie or mislead, I wouldn't want to.

‍

I had to just be honest and say, you know how I did it? I did it with donor eggs and that's okay. That's like how I got my beautiful child that I have this amazing, like I got the thing I wanted. I have this, know, my heart is happy. Everything about like my life is turned out well and it's okay to use donor eggs. That's okay. And so when I tell women that,

‍

It's like this sense of relief that they get. And so I think what happens is we see famous people, because they have big platforms. So we see these celebs having kids at 45, 48, 50, whatever age it happens to be. And so when younger women have this sense of reassurance that, I can do it too, but no one's talking about how they actually get pregnant.

‍

Stacy London She/her (13:26.125)

Yeah.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (13:49.26)

And so I kind of felt like I wish that, and I won't name any celebrities, but I wish that X, Y, or Z celeb would use their big platform to talk about donor eggs so I don't have to because you know what, this is my personal story, but I feel like I have to be the one out there waving the donor egg flag in a way because no one else is.

‍

Stacy London She/her (14:10.294)

Well, I think obviously that what that's being a pioneer and in some ways I think hearing it from you and not some big celebrity where you have to be like, well, they have a private trainer and a private chef and they have all the money in the world to spend on donor eggs is actually a better way for women to hear it and think that it's relatable to them. And you mentioned this before that really struck me. You said in terms of the hierarchy of motherhood, the higher. What does that even mean?

‍

Isn't it just that you get to be a mother? So what does the hierarchy of motherhood mean when you use that phrase? And that donor eggs are at the bottom. Because that just breaks my heart.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (14:51.863)

I mean, there's so many, I mean, there's a lot of pieces of this and some of them I address in the book. I mean, the hierarchy of motherhood does have to do with the different ways we could become mothers, but it also has to do with some of the conversations around the natural way to be a mom. So in the conversations in my mom's groups, people talk about not using pain medication during labor as the natural way, breastfeeding as the natural way, getting pregnant through sex. By the way, I don't think I've,

‍

Stacy London She/her (15:16.011)

No.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (15:21.545)

know anyone who's gotten pregnant from sex. I know, but getting pregnant from sex is the natural way, right? Like, who cares that like, science has advanced and now there's pain medication and like,

‍

Stacy London She/her (15:25.614)

unless you were like 16, know, teenage and pregnant.

‍

Stacy London She/her (15:38.722)

Well, that's what I was going to ask. mean, natural almost feels archaic to me, right? It's like we're not acknowledging that as we advance technologically, scientifically, that we would have more options in ways to become mothers and that the outcome is exactly the same.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (15:57.198)

That's right, that's right. And I think that when I talk about the hierarchy, and I don't talk about this a lot because I do think, know, anyway, I don't talk about it a lot, but I think there's the like having a child from sex, the old fashioned way from sex. And then there's, you know, having a child from IVF. And then there's having a child, you know, by adopting, there's surrogacy, there's donor and there's...

‍

something about not sharing your genetics and not sharing your genetics because with adoption you don't share your genetics also. But there's something about, there's a judgment I feel from some people about like, well then why didn't you just adopt? Meaning, like your ego told you you needed to give birth to this child so therefore,

‍

you use somebody else's DNA to have that child. And so there's this like sense of judgment. Do I what?

‍

Stacy London She/her (16:56.214)

Right. And do you agree with that? Yeah, but I mean, one, that sense of judgment to me is so ridiculous, but I completely understand feeling it. And I completely understand having to absorb it. But did you, did you yourself feel that way? Did you think that there was any ego involved?

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (17:07.213)

Mm-hmm.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (17:18.505)

No, I didn't feel that way. I didn't. I mean, there were a lot of feelings I had before I got pregnant, what I would call like anticipatory anxiety. I worried about would I bond with our baby? Because I thought that somehow if we didn't share genetics that, you know, I don't know that there would be a wedge somehow between me and the baby, which never happened. I thought that,

‍

Stacy London She/her (17:19.553)

Yeah.

‍

Stacy London She/her (17:41.676)

Mmm.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (17:46.7)

And I talked about this, did an essay for Romper, I talked about how I thought that if I didn't resemble our child, that my failure would be imprinted on her face in some way, and people would look at her and kind of know that I had failed. So there, again, there was all these kind of ripples of shame, but none of those things came to fruition, none. Now, mm-hmm.

‍

Stacy London She/her (17:58.24)

Stacy London She/her (18:04.398)

Yeah. And I'm even so curious about the judgment part of it, in terms of wanting to carry a child. That experience is not about ego. That's an experience that so many people want to have, whether it's their egg or not. So it just seems so ludicrous to me that we are constantly judging women, from pregnancy to perimenopause.

‍

that you're doing it the wrong way. And we've internalized that idea that everything is wrong if it's natural, right? If it's not the most archaic way possible, we've done something wrong. And it kills me to hear that, you you were thinking that somehow it'd be imprinted on your child in their physicality, you know, that you would not look like them. And who cares? You know what I mean? It's just like you're...

‍

The mommy, you get to be the mommy. And as more women are having children later in life, the landscape of motherhood I think is changing. What else does society still misunderstand and get wrong? Like what about middle-aged motherhood do you think is still challenging in terms of the way that we talk about it? mean,

‍

Women are judged, feel like, no matter what. And pregnancy, motherhood, perimenopause, all of those things carry so many opinions. But what are we still getting wrong?

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (19:37.966)

was having a conversation earlier today on another podcast actually, but we were talking about, I think 43 is for me the best age to have a child. I think we're getting wrong the whole idea of older motherhood being a negative. I think for me, I was at the point where...

‍

Stacy London She/her (19:48.759)

Hmm.

‍

Stacy London She/her (19:54.35)

Mmm.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (19:59.566)

I knew what I wanted, I already had my own business, I already had like figured out my superpower was my writing and I wanted to be an author. Like I had gotten to a place where I felt like, I'm not gonna say like, I was fully self actualized, no, I'm still working on that piece, but I was heading that way. And so 43 gave me a chance to like, find myself, figure myself out, know, create the life I wanted.

‍

Stacy London She/her (20:17.867)

Yeah.

‍

Stacy London She/her (20:28.077)

Hmm.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (20:28.327)

And a child then kind of fit into the flow of my life. And so in this earlier conversation, I was talking about ambition. Ambition was never like a dirty word for me. It was never, you know, something bad or something I pushed to the back burner. Like I am who I am and my child's a part of that life. And I love all of it.

‍

Stacy London She/her (20:51.63)

Yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree with you more. I think that we talk about our moms or our grandmothers, know, oh, she got pregnant at 21 or she got pregnant in college or whatever. This idea that even being 43 as opposed to 30, right? When you talk about, I know you said you aren't completely self-actualized. I don't know if any of us are self-actualized until we're dead. But in the meantime,

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (21:01.037)

Great.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (21:15.713)

No.

‍

Stacy London She/her (21:18.252)

that's so much more life experience. also I think, you one of the things that we forget is this like, know, ambition is not a dirty word, as you said, and that it is well worth your time to have created a career, more financial stability, whether you're single or with a partner, and gives you a much stronger basis to have a child than, you know, necessarily by having them when you're young and quote unquote, you know, what is it? It's like,

‍

biologically at its most optimal. Don't you think?

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (21:52.748)

I absolutely think that's true. That is the truth. And when you look at the research, studies have shown that children born to older parents, especially older mothers, tend to be better educated, healthier, all the things. And there's lots of reasons for that. But yes, it shouldn't be something we look down upon. It's like just is. It's no different than anything else. Everyone has a different timeline. We don't have to be.

‍

I say this in the book, like, if we all did the same things on the same timeline, that's how you get robots, not humans. I don't want to live in that world.

‍

Stacy London She/her (22:25.902)

also think, you know, in this day and age, we're also always, it's almost worse because aside from sort of societal and cultural judgment, now we have social media and you can compare and despair all of these. Like if I see one more, you know, 21 year old in a lingerie or outfit or like some ball gown talking about like the five course meals she's making for her husband and her five children, I'm going to shoot myself because that's not real life, right? Dora, be quiet. You have to be quiet now.

‍

Sorry. But it also does, to me, it talks about resilience. This idea that you have talked about this a little bit in writing the mother code, that it reshaped your understanding of resilience, both personally and collectively. And that I think is essential to talk about. what way do you feel that it changed you?

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (23:21.037)

Do you think when you ask that question, I'm wondering, do you mean mothering or the book or maybe both? Both. So I think the book, let's start with the book. The book changed me because I, yeah, you want me to?

‍

Stacy London She/her (23:26.648)

Both.

‍

Stacy London She/her (23:32.525)

Yeah.

‍

Stacy London She/her (23:37.198)

I was... Soon, but not yet. Okay. Soon, but not yet. Sorry, this is the only thing she understands. Okay, sorry about that.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (23:39.565)

Bye!

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (23:48.11)

I love that your dog can like understand or respond to you. So, children, book writing. Oh, I'm the type of person who doesn't know what I think until it's on the page. So I think that by writing the book, I understood more about the kind of transformation or shift I'd gone through in my...

‍

Stacy London She/her (23:51.444)

Only soon, but not yet. Good girl. Like it's the tone of my voice really.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (24:17.689)

narrative of motherhood over the decades, if that makes sense. So I had come from and I I read about this in the book, I came from a long line of women who abandoned their children. So I had come from a narrative of like, hell no, I'm never going to have children to

‍

Stacy London She/her (24:20.238)

Hmm.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (24:38.477)

maybe I'll have a child, let me try to find some role models for what good mothering could look like in society, because I wasn't finding it in my family, to is there a way to be a, what I called an outlaw mother, which by the way, I didn't call it, Adrienne Rich called it that, but I talk about that in my book. Is there a way to, that motherhood could be radical or even revolutionary?

‍

which blew my mind because I never thought of motherhood as radical or revolutionary. I thought it was degrading and weak. And so through writing and researching the book, my ideas about whether I could be a mother, but about motherhood more generally changed significantly. And while I was writing it, I was also trying to become a mom myself. And so it helped me think about the ways I wanted to mother if I could be so lucky to be a mom.

‍

Stacy London She/her (25:13.527)

when

‍

Stacy London She/her (25:34.989)

Yeah.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (25:35.68)

And then I talk at the end of my book about how I, there wasn't an alarm clock or a bell that went off saying, you must be a mother before I had a child. But once I did have my daughter, Clementine, through the kind of commitment and caretaking to keep her alive, to wipe her tush every night, all the stuff, that led

‍

I became a mother through mothering. That is what turned, that's what called love. And I did, I always quote this amazing geneticist, researcher, writer, Catherine Page Hardin, because she wrote a book called The Genetic Lottery and in it she talks about what we call love. Scientifically, that is the mixture of caretaking, commitment, and that gives you the feeling called love. And that's what happened with my daughter.

‍

Stacy London She/her (26:33.816)

Do you think because that is it's in the act itself, those things can only exist in the abstract until you're actually able to put them into action. And also you said that you had to look for revolutionary role models because you didn't feel that they were in your family, right? That you had this history of mothers who sort of abandoned their children in whatever sense of the word you mean. But I also think that speaks a lot to generational trauma and a lot to the way

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (26:37.506)

Right.

‍

Stacy London She/her (27:03.522)

that we think about mothering, aging, taking care of children, loving children, all of the things that go into that. And if it is part of your family history that you don't feel you've had those role models, I can imagine that it must've been really scary for you to start to think about, maybe I do wanna be a mom.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (27:26.549)

Yeah, it was terrifying. And I found myself in my 20s, it's confirmation bias because I thought that, you know, the only way to mother and do anything else would be to do everything badly. So when I went looking for role models in my 20s, I was finding examples of women who, you know, it didn't work out for Anne Sexton, Sylvia Plath, it didn't work out well for them.

‍

Stacy London She/her (27:28.611)

Yeah.

‍

Stacy London She/her (27:51.118)

Good.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (27:54.904)

But like I'm saying, it's confirmation bias. But when I...

‍

Stacy London She/her (27:57.134)

Yes, exactly. Who are you reading? mean, Anne Sexton and Sylvia Plath, right? Exactly. It's not even like a hype report. You know what I mean? You weren't even that far. But it is amazing that in your 20s, weren't, again, that confirmation bias was something that you could rid yourself of by the time you were in your late 30s and early 40s. So, I want people who are listening to this, 1A, to get so much hope from the way that you talk about this because

‍

You talk about the idea of mothering at an older age as something so empowering. And I am curious, because I want to bring it back to perimenopause. Since having your child and since sort of having to deal with both postpartum and perimenopause, how has that been for you? Are you on hormones now? mean, would you share what your path has been since having your child?

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (28:50.987)

Yeah, so now I'm 48, my daughter's five. I still can't believe it, so I have to just say it out loud. She's five years old. Still alive, we're both alive. Yeah, so about three months ago, I went on hormones, but for the last, I would call it four years,

‍

Stacy London She/her (28:57.824)

Yes. I'm still alive and so are you.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (29:15.021)

I had been, and I've talked to you about this, Stacey, outside of this podcast, but I'd been wondering what, again, what's wrong with me? Okay, now it's like, I don't have a brand new baby. Why am I still having these mood swings? Why am I still not sleeping well? Why am I still having whatever, all the symptoms that we know about? And I was going to the doctor and they're like,

‍

Stacy London She/her (29:18.318)

to this.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (29:43.768)

you know, well, you still have a young child, you're aging, whatever. No one was saying, do you think maybe you wanna consider going on hormones? Should we, these are all symptoms of perimenopause. And by the way, I went into menopause fairly early. I haven't had a period in almost a year now, so it's not quite technically menopause, but, and still, and I kept telling my doctor that, I'm like, this could be menopause.

‍

I felt dismissed and I went to an endocrinologist, I went to my PCP and I went to my gynecologist. And two of the three of those doctors were women. Nobody was talking about menopause. I had to be like, somebody I need to talk to on menopause specialist. And if you don't, a lot of the times my friends who I was talking to and like trying to get their takes on it because they'd been to doctors, they like, if insurance doesn't pay for it,

‍

spending a lot of money out of pocket. And so I think that's another deterrent is that I just wasn't, I was like, I guess I'm gonna have to spend a whole lot of money to get some answers. And eventually.

‍

Stacy London She/her (30:55.672)

Right. Which is, yeah, which is also, you know, not the norm for most people. That makes me so crazy and so angry. Not enough people are listening to the podcast. Because you really, I'm sure you felt like you had to advocate for yourself in that situation.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (31:16.233)

Yes, I had to advocate for myself. I had to say like, I know what this is, or I think I know what this is. And the reason why I know is because I know people like Stacey London and I, you know, have, you know, I go on social media and I have friends that are really savvy and sophisticated and know about these things. But I'm a journalist who's like used to pushing and pushing and pushing until I get answers. What about the rest of this country?

‍

Stacy London She/her (31:41.623)

Exactly.

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (31:42.581)

And also, you know, my husband, Rob, is very, very supportive. And at the same time, he was also like, what's going on? Like, you seem different. Like, you know, and I just was like, I don't know, maybe it's having a small child or maybe, you know, I don't know. Maybe we need to see a couples therapist. I don't know. I don't know.

‍

Stacy London She/her (32:03.022)

But you know what? think it's so interesting because it really does speak to the fact that there does if we are going to start seeing more women who are older have children, right? You know past their 30s, maybe early 40s, then we also have to consider that, you know, after postpartum that perimenopause conversation really should be part and parcel of having the pregnancy in order

‍

you know, instead of you having to wander around wondering why you don't feel the same and people giving you some bullshit answer like, you you have a small child. Guess what? Lots of people have small children. The book is called The Mother Code and Ruthie Ackerman, thank you so much for being on Hello Menopause. I can't thank you enough. Everybody get the book and I'm, know, Clementine is a lucky little

‍

Ruthie Ackerman (32:53.133)

Thank you. Thank you, Stacey, for like helping me through all of these questions in life and online and here on this podcast. And everyone keep listening and I love you.

‍

Stacy London She/her (33:05.229)

And also Ruthie has great taste in shoes.

###

‍