Stacy London (00:00) How did you get to this point in your life — where all of these things came together and you wanted to support women through them? How did you become interested in the menopause journey, generally?

Vanessa Chamberlin (00:16) Well, obviously, number one, through my own menopause experience. Prior to that, I was in the health and wellness industry, teaching everything from what you eat to how you feed your body. I was also really delving into letting go of shame, of guilt, of all the baggage that we carry in life. I was doing that work on myself. Whenever I'd speak — whether it was a cooking class, a couples class, a women-only event — I was sharing, unburdening myself from all the things I'd had on my shoulders. The not good enough. For me, it was about being lovable. I believed that if I had the right shoes, the right man, the right friends, the right car, the right house, the right look — if I was thin enough, rich enough — then I was lovable. That is a lot to carry.

Stacy London (01:19) Every one of us is carrying all of that baggage for most of our lives. You make a really interesting point in that you were teaching people about shame and guilt — things I don't think we have much of a handle on when we get to midlife. And I think midlife presents a lot of different complications that make those feelings much harder to carry. There is this kind of moment — at least in my own menopausal journey — where it stopped being a reckoning and started to become a renaissance. But that took so much self-interrogation, medical interrogation, psychological interrogation. When you started teaching this stuff and wanted to unburden — I always feel like we teach best what we most need to learn — what conclusions did you reach? What led you to write the book? What led you to talk about hair? How did all of these things come together?

Vanessa Chamberlin (02:26) It's all so natural looking back at it. Every step was beautifully orchestrated. Back then and even now, it has always been about letting go of what no longer serves you. That has been my mantra — which is why my handle is Silver Liberation. I wanted it to not just be about the hair. It was about letting go. I started talking about my own shame and guilt, sharing things I was very ashamed of, mistakes I had made. It was still a rough touching point. But every time I did it, I gave others permission to do the same. I would have people lined up, a hundred behind me. "Oh my God, me too." Crying, hugging me afterward when I shared some of the darker things I had experienced.

So I was speaking on all of those things, and then menopause hit. It hit me like a Mack truck. One day I had some night sweats and I didn't know what it was — I had no experience with it. But I knew the moment it hit.

Stacy London (03:22) No one was talking about it.

Vanessa Chamberlin (03:40) No one. I was about 43 and there was absolutely no one talking about it. I had one girlfriend who said, "I think you're having a hot flash. I think you might be in menopause." I called the hormone doctor the next day. I was not breezing through it — and I wasn't drinking, I was meditating, eating right, clean living — and I still had every symptom. So I knew I had to start sharing it. That's my nature: if I find something, I'm going to shout it from the rooftops. My body was going crazy, and eventually my girlfriend, who had helped me author my first book, said, "Vanessa, we need to co-author a book." We wrote Menopause Mavens and shared our stories. That was the beginning of the menopause part of this journey.

Stacy London (04:37) I love your hair. I've been known for my gray streak for a long time and any time I see a beautiful head of silver hair I'm always a little jealous. Tell me about that journey, because it clearly also started with a sense of self-acceptance.

Vanessa Chamberlin (04:52) That was the biggest self-acceptance journey of this whole experience. I had my first gray hair at about 17, so I had been covering it up for decades. I'd had a little pixie cut for about ten years and I was chasing the color constantly. I also had this belief — lovability is tied to how you look. You're beautiful, you're young, you're lovable. Gray hair? That was grandma. That was not sexy, not cool, not Vanessa. That was never going to be Vanessa.

That's how much of a hold society's standards had on me. So much shame around it. Then one day I was online looking at beautiful women with gray hair, and Stacy — it was like this. I said, "F it. I could just go gray." I don't even know where that came from. It still feels visceral because that was not Vanessa. That was not the woman who needed everything to be perfect and beautiful. But then I opened up my laptop and typed in "beautiful women with gray hair," "gorgeous and gray," "models with gray hair" — and to my surprise, where had these women been? They were there all along. I needed validation that you could still be young, vivacious, and beautiful with gray hair. That's what Vanessa needed — to see the beauty in it so she could see herself.

Stacy London (06:30) Talk about validation. What we're really talking about here is gray hair as a signifier of all of the cultural issues we still have with women aging. We have internalized those messages so deeply that it takes a lot of so-called courage to go gray if you're a woman — which drives me insane. What about George Clooney? He's a silver fox and he looks better than he did when he was young. Why can't we say the same thing about women? Understanding that you needed that validation in order to do it is part of the problem — needing permission to be ourselves. When really, instead of needing validation, we need to build a system in which growing out our hair is the most pure expression of who we are. That we're not performing beauty — and I'm quoting you there — because there's something inherently human about wanting to be loved. But I don't think wanting to be accepted operates on the same value system after menopause.

Those values of youth that keep us stuck — we have to keep our hair colored, we can't have wrinkles, we can't gain weight, we can't have saggy knees or whatever — it's all part of the same thing. We shouldn't need validation one way or the other. We should be allowed to do whatever we want. We know what the cultural problems are. And yet we've been fed these messages to the point that we believe them, to the point that it's very hard to break out of those roles we think we're supposed to play.

But I do believe this is the most empowering and freeing stage of life for women — because there isn't the same onus placed on us after our childbearing years. The same value system simply can't apply. In my youth I wanted to be accepted for being beautiful. Other people's opinions about my appearance mattered to me in a way they simply don't now. I don't need permission to dress how I want or let my hair go gray. I feel really empowered by what I've been through in a way where I don't allow culture or anyone else to make decisions for me that are really mine to make.

Vanessa Chamberlin (09:27) What you're saying is so beautiful because it's exactly what happened for me. The moment I said I'm going gray, I knew it was going to be a reevaluation of every single thing I thought and believed about beauty and aging. I knew in my gut it was going to be so much bigger than the hair. It was going to be about the entire belief system. That's why Silver Liberation. I thought long and hard about that name. It needed to be empowering — because it was really going to be about letting go of self-judgment and society's stranglehold on those beliefs.

Every day I was shooting a selfie. That was the most vulnerable, uncomfortable thing — showing those tiny bits of gray growing through. But as I did it, it gave other women permission. We have a Silver Sisters community that is massively beautiful. But it was showing up for the grow-out, on Instagram initially, that allowed me to unpack and unfold. I did a slow grow — I didn't dye it, didn't cut it. You can cut it, buzz it, lighten it — whatever works for you. For me, the slow grow was going to give me the most out of the experience. I needed to retrain my brain. I needed a detox. A rebirth. It was going to be messy, but I needed the time, and it forced me to look in the mirror every single day at that ever-growing gray.

That's when the gray hair and menopause started to come together. The conversation about letting go of this became the conversation about letting go of other people's opinions — about weight, about everything we talk about with menopause. After a while, we don't give the F's anymore. We really let go of what no longer serves us. For me, the gray hair opened the door to letting go of everything else.

Stacy London (11:35) So you grew it out, you built this platform, you're speaking to women all over the world, encouraging self-acceptance. You're saying I don't need the dye anymore, I don't need this extra work, this isn't who I am anymore. But —

Vanessa Chamberlin (11:50) It also doesn't mean I let myself go. I still want to be beautiful. People say "you're letting yourself go" — no. I'm not letting go of the beauty standard I have for myself. That's the tricky part. Everyone has their own, but I think that gets lost in the conversation.

Stacy London (12:09) Not everybody has their own, though. Unfortunately, we play too much with these broad, general beauty standards that we think are the right ones, instead of individualizing them the way you're describing. That's also part of the road to self-acceptance — understanding humanity's deep need for community and love. You're talking about a true sense of self-acceptance that does not mean you're not being intentional with your care. And I think that's the key difference. There's a lot of "fuck everything" energy out there — fuck you and fuck what you think.

Vanessa Chamberlin (12:52) Yes, and that saddens me. Because there is a lot of that online, and most of it is coming from women. What you're describing — there's an unhealed wound underneath that. There's "I'm free" and there's "I'm pissed — screw you for saying that." Those are two very different camps. What I want to nurture is letting go of the anger too. There's a big difference.

Stacy London (13:31) How do you talk to people about that? Because I think the anger is still part of the reckoning — how can I look like this, I don't feel like myself, I'm grieving the person I was. But how do we really open ourselves up to what's possible? How do we radically self-accept?

Vanessa Chamberlin (14:02) The first thing is you have to be willing. You can baby step if you need to. But the first thing is saying: I'm doing this and I'm going all in. The problem is when we try to move forward while still holding on — to the past, to what people think, to old pain. There has to be a willingness to be vulnerable. To let it all out. Have the dark nights of the soul. Get it out. Every time you do, a little bit gets chipped away. You have to be open to the fact that this isn't going to be pretty. Some of it is going to feel awful. But until we pull it out of the closet, we can never step forward. We have to ask: why am I so angry? What is it really? Because sometimes it's not the wrinkles. Sometimes it's a marriage that broke up, or a million other things. Finding what's at the actual core — digging until you finally hit that nerve that's right where it is — that's when you can articulate it. That's when you can say: that was what was really painful. What did I learn from that? About six weeks into growing out my gray, I was in the mirror doing my makeup and I suddenly looked at myself and said, "I love you. You're so beautiful." And I still could cry over that. That was a turning point for the rest of the experience.

Stacy London (15:53) Wow.

Vanessa Chamberlin (16:03) Even though I was doing the work before, I had been wearing it like a coat of armor — telling everyone I was growing out my gray so they wouldn't judge me before they could say anything. And then one day I stopped. Because if growth is going to come, it can't come from preempting what other people say. You have to let it go. Instead of the years of swearing at my gray in the mirror, this was a tender, loving moment. Stacy, it could be your hair, it could be wrinkles, it could be a scar, excess weight — anything physical or not. It's that quiet moment when you're open to it. In my room, alone, I gave myself permission to hear what my soul was begging for — love, attention.

Stacy London (17:02) We are the only ones who can give us back to ourselves. There is so much shame around aging, and when we get to this stage and start going through menopause — which is equally mortifying, or we've been taught to think it is — we're not supposed to talk about it. What a gift it is to finally say: I have to pick up the slack here. I have to love myself instead of relying on other people to do it. My lived experience and wisdom should allow me to do that now — to stop pandering to public opinion.

Vanessa Chamberlin (17:51) You can only hold the dam for so long. As a recovering perfectionist, I can tell you — the dam will break. You can only do so much. It becomes clear: you have to have massive self-care. And it is not selfish. It's putting on your oxygen mask first. It is not optional. It is essential at this stage of life. And the symptoms need to be addressed. They should be addressed. And they should be covered by insurance.

Stacy London (18:28) Completely agree. I was talking to someone recently about rethinking midlife care — that it deserves its own insurance umbrella, for men and for women. Hormone stabilization, bone density, prostate cancer — all of it falling under that category. Colonoscopies are now recommended at 40, not 50. Breast cancer screenings need to come earlier. All of that would also inform menopause diagnoses much faster.

Vanessa Chamberlin (19:04) Absolutely. And the best thing you can do for yourself is get a hormone baseline while you're thriving — at your peak. Get your testosterone, estrogen, pregnenolone, T3, T4 — all of it. Because then you have a reference point for when things start to shift.

Stacy London (19:32) Do you feel this is generational? I don't see the same shame and guilt around aging in Gen Z that I see in Gen X.

Vanessa Chamberlin (19:44) I think it's a mix of things. Women of my generation on social media have amplified and opened up the conversation — not just for our own demographic, but for younger women too. Social media has opened the door for Gen Z. The world is a different place. But I think it's women of our age who are having the biggest impact on how Gen Z perceives beauty. I think our voices are more powerful than we realize in this shift. It is beautiful.

Stacy London (20:36) I completely agree. There's so much talk about the wealth transfer happening between generations right now — but I think there's also a huge knowledge transfer going on between Gen X and Gen Z. Gen Z being so open about race, sexuality, gender, and health has allowed us to be a lot more open than we would have been given how we were raised. I see a big Gen X revolution happening — very much encapsulated by what you're doing.

Vanessa Chamberlin (21:02) Yes. It's great.

Stacy London (21:28) This idea of growing out the gray or letting go of what no longer serves you — these are things we talk about at many different stages of life, but they have a very particular resonance here. Midlife really does require saying goodbye to act one in order to enjoy what's next.

Vanessa Chamberlin (21:41) One hundred percent. And ultimately, it doesn't matter what hair color you have. This — what I have right now — looks beautiful and vivacious and fabulous because I've done the work. I feel good on the inside, and that's what's reflecting outward — whether you have blonde hair or brunette or red, whether you chopped it off or grew it long. It doesn't matter. The inner glow, the attraction of true beauty — it comes from how you feel on the inside.

Stacy London (22:19) Let's close on this — self-care versus correction. Tell me what you mean.

Vanessa Chamberlin (22:27) First, let me say this very clearly: age your way. If that means Botox or filler or a facelift, I will champion the hell out of you. I want you to feel happy. But self-care — the kind that actually gets you to where I am now — means turning off the outside noise. Slowing down. Not trying to do twenty things today; maybe getting three done. Radical self-acceptance. Owning and protecting your time like it's nobody else's business. Saying no — that was a huge one for me. I was a yes person because I wanted to be needed, to be loved. Learning to say no so you can say yes to yourself — that is the real self-care.

Stacy London (23:25) The people pleasing. Yes.

Stacy London (23:33) Are there any hair products you recommend for going gray?

Vanessa Chamberlin (23:37) Viviscal has been wonderful for me. I switched from a static dose to rhythmic dosing a while back and I lost a significant amount of hair — it was devastating. So I started taking Viviscal a few months ago and I'm already getting baby hairs growing back. As far as supplements go, I love it — low effort, twice a day, super easy.

Stacy London (23:52) Before we close, your Instagram is at Silver Liberation?

Vanessa Chamberlin (23:59) Yes — Silver Liberation on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook. I'm also building Inner Beauty School, which is really my life's work. It all starts from the inside, and it's ageless. It'll be an online course, a community, and I want to do in-person events — there is nothing better for filling your cup than being together in person.

Stacy London (25:04) Completely agree. Vanessa, thank you so much.

Vanessa Chamberlin (25:06) You're so welcome. All I can say to the women out there — any of the life challenges you're facing in any chapter of your life — if you choose to go through it instead of around it, you will get to where I am. So start digging through all the things you're carrying. It is the most beautiful, freeing experience. I have never felt more beautiful, more free, more exhilarated than I do right now — and it's all because of the work I've done.

Stacy London (25:36) Wow.

Vanessa Chamberlin (25:38) And one final plug for the Silver Sisters and the women over 50 community — there are a robust number of us all over social. If you don't have the girlfriends to talk about menopause or you're struggling with symptoms, we have a community for you. Silver Sisters over 50 — find us. No gatekeeping. We share everything.

Find Vanessa Chamberlin at @silverliberation on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook.